Unveiling the Depths of Brachary: A Journey of Resilience and Resolution

In the ever-changing tapestry of life, it’s hard to overstate the importance of love, if we’re being honest, as cheesy and “cringe” as it can be to say on the nose, directly. But like the Beatles song goes, “all you need is love.” And frankly, if anyone, or couple, were able to truly hold onto this feeling, this vibration of love, this sacred cosmic truth, this whatever it is, consistently, then we would likely be much more happy and fulfilled. This we can safely say. But life can’t be that simple, can it? Life wants to throw you from the saddle of your precious love experience like a bucking Bronco. But, before you know it, then you’re back. Back in the saddle. Of love. See what I did there? Anyway, we can all see that love is a binding force in our lives, weaving together disparate emotions, experiences, and challenges, molding us in unique and profound ways. In our boutique wedding business, Epic Love, we are lucky to be able to tell a wide variety of stories & relish in the beauty of love, and through our podcast, Matrimony Mony, we endeavor to share some of these incredibly captivating stories that illuminate the diverse facets, regardless how ugly or unflattering, of capital ‘L’ Love.

Here, in Episode 2 of Matrimony Mony, my girlfriend Brittany and I embark on a transformative conversation that will take you—if you let us, dear listener—on an EPIC emotional rollercoaster ride. We open our hearts, minds, and experiences, showcasing the realities of a relationship, unfiltered and unapologetic. This episode serves as a testament to the imperfect yet beautiful journey of our own love story, right from the humble beginnings, where our heated conversations (we are incorrigible drama queens) and subsequent resolutions become stepping stones moving towards real growth.

Within the “terrifying” realm of love, there exists myriad challenges and complexities only a crazy man would jump into it seems. Or maybe it takes a crazy man or woman to really embrace love within humanity as it is today. We need to finally recognize that relationships are not always a seamless tapestry of blissful rom-com moments. Our intention is to bring authenticity to the forefront, embracing the dirty truth, and demonstrating that even in the face of disagreement, there is always hope if you are willing to get curious.

As we begin Episode 2, we find ourselves confronted with a relationship issue that demands our attention. Sure, it didn’t organically arise on the episode. We want to be forthright with you, no smoke & mirrors. We’d had an idea previously to try to work out our next argument on air, as a form of therapy. The idea was that we would use our audience, y’all, as our accountability moderators in a way.  Almost an imaginary therapist, making the podcast a safe space for us to discuss our issues, as on air we have natural inclination to put our best feet forward. We hoped we might be uniquely motivated to be more vulnerable & to listen to one another more deeply, and vulnerably. Because it is during vulnerable moments that we reveal our humanity, our flaws. We thought the dynamic exchange which might unfold between us could potentially showcase the power of empathy, compassion, and the willingness to confront difficult emotions head-on, and maybe help others in the same position. That was our wager, anyhow.

In the spirit of transparency, in many ways our wager was successful, and we ended up engaging in a respectful yet spirited, highly sensitive and triggering, argument, unraveling the layers of our perspectives, desires, and fears. At times our voices do rise, emotions tangle, it feels as though the love that binds us is being tested. But it is precisely within this tempest of emotions that we discover the true essence of our connection — a connection strong enough to weather any storm. Man, Chat GPT helped us write some of this, for fun, and that was a cheesy clunker straight from the chatbot. Damn.

So, we invite you, dear hopeless romantic, oh lovesick dreamer, to join us on our shared journey of self-reflection and growth, to witness the delicate balance between vulnerability and strength, as we expose the raw truths of our innermost selves. Through active listening and mutual understanding, we unravel the intricacies of our individual experiences, recognizing the impact they have on our relationship as a whole.

However, what sets Episode 2 apart is not solely the exploration of our conflict, but rather the transformative power of resolution. In the midst of our heated conversation, we harness the strength of our bond and navigate the tumultuous sea of emotions, emerging on the other side with a newfound understanding and a strengthened connection.

By sharing this deeply personal episode, we aspire to empower our listeners, reminding them that love is not synonymous with perfection. Instead, it thrives in the spaces between differences, disagreements, and doubts. Through our vulnerability, we provide a beacon of hope, illustrating that relationships, with their inherent imperfections–not in spite of them, but BECAUSE of them–can be molded into something extraordinary, authentic & beautiful. That was my cheesy ass. I can’t blame Chat GPT for that.

You can follow along on the full transcript provided below, as you listen. As this powerful episode unfolds, prepare to be captivated by the raw intensity of our emotions, the resounding echoes of our words, and the unwavering dedication we have towards fostering a love that endures. Together, we traverse the intricate web of love, unearthing its complexities and discovering the profound beauty that lies within.

Join Brittany and I on our imperfect journey, as we unravel the story of our love, expose personal trauma we have clenched onto, and prove that even in the face of adversity, love conquers all. Where is Zoro when you need him? Um, I think that last line was actually Chat GPT being funny. Good work, buddy!



Zach  0:05  

Hello there fellow hopeless romantics. You love sick dreamers who are secretly keyed into the hidden reality in which true love really does exist. This is Matrimony Mony, an Epic Love podcast, and my name is Zach. I am joined by my person, my beautiful inimitably talented girlfriend Brittany.

Brittany  0:36  

Hello, hello.

Zach  0:40  

And, and we are here to tell you that this isn’t a world with simply magical unicorns farting out colorful rainbow dust and confetti, which you probably already knew. No, that’s the point of this podcast. There is a storm afoot. Make no mistake; we would never lie to you about this fact. You can see it all around you. But we would like to hold up a torch for hopeless romanticism inn a modern world in which helpless romanticism feels all but dead. So here, we will endeavor to see through the veil of illusion. And to rediscover the magic of a world pregnant with true love hiding below the hollow facade. So we’re exploring the nature of love here, what love is, but from a million different angles, approaches, tones to weave a complexly blossoming pattern of it, but hopefully in a more authentic way than you’ve ever heard it talked about before. That’s our goal, anyhow. And today we are coming with the truly ‘no nerf,’ ‘no-punches-pulled’ approach. Brittany and I had a little bit of an argument earlier. And we saved it for the podcast for all of you. And I would like to, if it’s okay with you, start from the beginning. But if not, we can just go right into–but I thought it might be fun to kind of tell our story a little bit first. And once we kind of tell a little bit about that. We come back to this issue. 

Brittany  3:01  

Yeah, let’s go for it.

Zach  3:03  

So we had an interesting beginning; I lived in Michigan; Brittany lived here, sort of near Atlanta, Metro Atlanta. And so it started out as a long distance relationship. We met on Bumble…

Brittany  3:25  

or hinge or hinge, I don’t know,

Zach  3:28  

I thought her profile seemed highly suspect. She was so beautiful. And I thought it was like, there wasn’t a way it was a real, a real person, as beautiful as she was. And also just like as perfect as her write-up was and all these kinds of things, which once you hear a little more about her story that… all that’s going to make sense. But so she responded to me and I immediately, I never get an immediate response. And I was like, Are you a bot? And do you remember?

Brittany  4:04  

Yes, I do. I said, Well, I guess you’re never going to find out.

Zach  4:08  

So she was right, right out of the gates firing on all cylinders.

Brittany  4:14  

I found the question quite interesting. It’s an I, I was dating a few people all at once and I’ve gone on so many online dating dates and to have that I can psychoanalyze someone’s sentence and read where they’re at in life, and typically be almost spot on. And that kind of question led me to believe all kinds of things about this man. And I was just like–but I knew, based on his wording and how he did it, I knew from my intuition, he was different. And not just like this Rom Com, “he’s different.” The way he thought was different. His brain process was different because that’s not a norm–like his social interactions were different and I could tell, so it was curious, but I had to give him something cheeky to throw back.


Zach  5:00  

So we were goin’ at each other. And I thought it was, at a point pretty quickly I could tell she was actually real the way she responded. I sort of felt stupid, but it was um… it also immediately seemed cute. I think we were both weirdly attracted to each other, and also like weirdly repulsed by each other’s personality. Which this… we’re gonna get into maybe why that might be. So quickly, she was trying to get me on a FaceTime. And I’m like, “this is real life that I’m just historically allergic to video telephony.” As a filmmaker, just usually more comfortable being behind the camera. But in front of the camera, all I can fucking pay attention to is how stupid I look. I’m usually like paying attention to myself, when I’m on a video chat. And I just was afraid that I wouldn’t be able to be myself. But I understood also, pretty quickly talk to some of my friends…

Brittany  6:11  

Wait, wait, wait, bullllllllshit. This was a huge deal. I even quit talking him over it. I let him know I was female and safety driven. I needed to make sure he wasn’t a serial killer. Plus, he lived all the way across the country, ladies and gentlemen. And so I wanted to see him in this man debated me–thought he was debating me under the table about how it was impossible for us to connect over FaceTime, and that it was pointless. And even getting on a phone call, there was anxiety around…he wanted to wait a few weeks. It was very different being… I’ve never seen him and having someone not being willing to talk. Like, I didn’t understand what was going on. Like, it was very weird to me. Like, but I don’t know. So finally, he kept debating me on the FaceTime. And I was like, “you know what? Fine. This is ridiculous. This is too complicated for me. I’m out.”

Zach  7:14  

Yeah. And I think what I’m getting at here is not that I immediately recognized that. I’m talking about after, after, there was like a moment where you said, “fuck this tit for tat shit,” and you quit talking to me. And then and then I talked to my friend Tracy, who can often times be the voice of reason to me about the female perspective. And she said everything you said, made me realize like, okay, women are safety driven. It’s like very–she just brought the female perspective of how like, yeah, I could be a serial killer and all this kind of like proper hygiene: internet dating hygiene. And I was like, “yeah, I get it.”  And then so we’d quit talking. Because you said something. Remember the “tit for tat” comment?

Brittany  8:01  

Yeah, it’s like when he felt threatened, he would say little comments that were derogatory. And I don’t think you realized it, but you did. And I was like, you know what, II don’t even have emotional connection. This man this is too much drama for me. I’m gonna go enjoy my cool life. And I was like, peace out a toned down. 

Zach  8:19  

I thought it felt very much like she was trying to control the format. I think we both have had this from the beginning. This like sort of like…we’re both semi controlling. We’ve noted. Both alphas. This will be something we talk about at some point. And yeah, I think that there was part of me that like was like, she’s trying to control the fucking okay, she’s not going to talk to me if I don’t do a FaceTime? And that’s what I said the stupid shit. And so we quit talking.

Brittany  8:52  

Yeah, that was it for me. I was like, I’m not but what was so weird. It’s like, I know all my triggers that pull me to unhealthy man, it’s usually if they leave me. There’s something that gets you wet about that. But this time, it wasn’t like that. So usually when I dump guys or I don’t talk to them anymore, I don’t think about them one day after, that’s just unfortunately the truth, when I was dating. But Zach, as much as he frustrated me, I couldn’t stop thinking about him. And it was like intoxicatingly pulling at me.

Zach  9:30  

For both of us, too. Like, we both experienced the same thing and that ended up being kind of one of the things I think that like ended up helping us bond, recognizing this idea that perhaps we are twin flames Woo. Bringing the woo.

Brittany  9:48  

Woo woo. 

Zach  9:49  

And uh…

Brittany  9:49  

This toxic trend, and, I think, you know, we get into realities… These are all truths, people believe in Twin Flames is this like romantic situation that’s like meeting a soulmate. That’s how it’s described in a lot of spiritual circles.  You meet the other half yourself. And we hear this a lot of times and there’s nothing like it. It’s like, “bitch, if it’s the other half of yourself; most people hate themselves and we’re running from ourselves; you think is going to be fucking Aladdin?” Like no. 

Zach  10:20  

A whole new world…


Brittany  10:22  

Yeah, it’s a whole new world. Welcome to you, bitches. And you hate you. And welcome to the mirror of if like ‘Dante’s Inferno’ of the shit you’ve been drinking into rehab for, here it is. But it’s like fucking yourself. Like Jessa Reed said, there’s nothing better than fucking yourself because you know how you want to be fucked. So the passion is awesome. But the triggering… And it’s like, he’s, he’s right arm, I’m left arm or whatever, it’s–the way we handle things is opposite. I run, he stays, he’s more about being with his… you know, like, like the lone wolf kind of thing, kind of represents, if you think about the Twin Flame… I’m always trying to leave my body. I’m always trying to leave me. So I’ve constantly tried to leave you. You stay to yourself. So you never leave me.

What’s also interesting is the attachment styles go against that. So everything is like this series of flipped mirrors. So it’s like, also we have a tendency for me to be avoidant. And for you to be anxious attachment style, probably,

Yeah, when we get into these spirals and we’re not doing good, I go straight to my I go right into anxious attachment. So when I feel we’ve gotten in a big, big fight, usually we’ll do pretty good. We’ll get out of it. And then we’ll have one fight. And all our triggers come back up for me. And then I react. I hate myself for it. Because this isn’t usual for me to react this way to another human being. And then I can see how I hurt him. And I hate myself for it. And then it’s like, I hate myself. And I’m like, why would he want to be with me. And then I get paranoid. I get paranoid about other people, women, I get paranoid about why he’s in this relationship, because I hate myself so much for how I treated you in that fight. It’s like it brings back all my trauma, and you’re disconnected in the energy protecting yourself. So energetically, I also feel abandoned, but I get why you do. And I run after you energetically. I’m like, “wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, do you love me? Do you love me?”  And that pushes you away more and more and more. And we realized recently, sometimes we need to take space to like cool down so that because when that happens, we’ll fight for like two weeks straight. And then we’re like dead shells of beings that are shaking by the end of it like with red eyes, just like I love you. But I want to die. Like what the fuck, that’s how we are.

Zach  13:01  

So moving forward. So we are in, I’m in Michigan, she’s here in Atlanta. And we sort of developed this trajectory where we have these two kind of different sides…like different sides of the relationship, almost different timelines are occurring at the same time. So there’s a thing where, like, we’re just talking on the phone constantly, it’s the only way we can have this connection. So we’re like….I’m at work in this machine shop. Before I sort of embraced my career and passion here more fully, but I’m still in the machine shop. And talking all the time in my AirPods to Brittany. And we have like almost the talking part is this, we talked about all this kind of shit constantly. And it became almost like a friend thing. But then she would come visit she’d fly to Michigan. And we have these very kind of like hot & steamy… It was definitely in person much more romantic. There was like a vibe of extreme attraction for both of us. And if she’d come, and we’d experienced this thing that was like more like what we probably both were hoping for in our relationship. And then she’d go back. And we go back into kind of like this friend’s vibe, but it was also like really kind of useful in terms of like getting on top of all our triggers and talking about these kinds of things. So there’s an interesting thing, and I was never going to move to Atlanta. I was never I would never move here.

Brittany  14:30  

Oh yeah, he even brought it up when we first met. How would you feel like, “I’m never going to move to Atlanta.” Like, almost like…would you still pursue this, like I’m never gonna move to Atlanta

Zach  14:40  

And she had kids here. So it was really a fucking death knell to the potential of the relationship that I would never move because I wasn’t the only one that would have been in the position to move. So it was this whole thing that built and built and it became increasingly apparent to me that we weren’t going to be able to make it work if I stayed there, if she were here. And so I, within about six months, five or six months, opened up the idea of, like, maybe I could move. She had a friend who had an opportunity for me here in…as a filmmaker for my full-time job. At the time, it seemed like this perfect opportunity for me to come here to Atlanta. She had cold feet about that than more than me, but I felt very guided that there was no way we could possibly work if we weren’t physically together more often, because I saw that being the time where we really became more of this energy of Brachary that we talk about, Brittany & Zachary.


Brittany  15:50  

Yeah, my thing leading up to talking about him moving here, because the girlfriend of mine provided the idea of offering a position to him. And at first it felt exciting, imagining having those experiences we had together here more often, like a some kind of normalcy and dating. But then when we started actually going forward with it, I had a different experience. I had a lot of–my intuition was guiding me that we weren’t ready.

Zach  16:21  

And I was getting a lot of syncs that we had, that this was the thing. Like this was the only way I was getting a lot of synchronicities. But by the way, you guys know, some of you aren’t in the wool community to know when I say syncs, I mean synchronicities. So like seeming coincidences that have a meaningful aspect to them. That’s how I would kind of define.. but you know, so very strange, usually strange signs from the universe as the way it appeared to me. So I was getting all the signs.

Brittany  16:49  

I was not. 

Zach  16:50  

She was not.

Brittany  16:52  

So welcome to Twin Flames. So this is where we have to learn to meet in the middle. This would be, I think, one of the greatest twin flame lessons is balance and merging. And that’s proven to be very hard, because you have two extremes. And the coming together as one would be merging those two together and not needing it to be just my way or your way. What would that look like? And we didn’t really plan you to come here; we didn’t talk about merging, we just went headfirst. 

Zach  17:25  

And we did it headlong, folks. We decided to just do it; I can be very sort of forceful in my opinion, sometimes.  I probably went a little too hard in the fucking paint; we may have jumped the gun, I don’t know.  I like to think it was the right decision, ultimately. But I fucking did it. I moved down. Not only that I move down, Brittany came to help me pack all my shit up from my apartment.  And… which was just like a really stressful shit show, a lot of things were falling apart, I had mold in my apartment, and was like having all these crazy allergic reactions to what I believe to be black mold, which sort of allowed me to get out of my lease, all this happening all at the same time, and there was a whole meltdown during my interview for the job, a pretty unhealthy, toxic… 

Narrator Zach  18:21  

So it’s hard to know exactly what to say about this moment here. But I do know that there’s certain aspects of this story, and this one is, in fact, one of those moments that we can’t talk about some of these elements. And we can’t really even tell you exactly why we can’t. But it does involve other people. Certainly, we’re not trying to expose anyone in our lives, any situations in our lives. And it was a difficult situation for Brittany. And for me. It was just a very challenging, a situation that wasn’t healthy for Brittany. But it’s hard to know what to say about this. And I’m struggling here you guys. So I’m trying to find the words to give you an idea. But anyway, so Brittany felt very betrayed by my actions like I wasn’t there to defend her against things that kind of were necessary, seemed necessary for survival. Let’s put it that way. And so it was a very difficult conflict that seemed to pit survival against me kind of protecting….[her]. And I do feel terrible about that extreme double bind that I was in. Brittany was right in many ways to to feel that I betrayed her. In many ways I did and I feel terrible about that. And I wasn’t there for Brittany in the way that I should have been.

Brittany  19:59  

And also we had a history of me building up not speaking a few things that I felt disrespected on. So there was a whole cocktail mix going on. But I did not feel good about it. And when I had voiced my opinion on it, it never felt heard. It was it was not… Nope, this is the only way to make this work. And it’s like, I want to be with this person. What do I do? Yeah, you know, I didn’t feel my intuition was being heard.


Zach  20:30  

So we did it. I moved down. It was immediately a different kind of situation, as soon as I get here, and we move in together, after seven months ish. And she has two kids. So we were trying to just move everything together.  Just against all the the potential warnings, maybe from the outside world of like, this isn’t the way to do this. And she was really, very sort of squarely thinking about all that kind of stuff that my Peter Pan ass really wasn’t. I was actually very naively just thinking we can make this work. I, oftentimes, just have that idea that we can make it work, we can make it work. I can make anything work.

Brittany  21:15  

I’ve always been very impulsive, and I respect impulsive people; I think they get a bad rap. I think being impulsive can be beautiful. Because they’re fearless. And they never don’t go for the thing. I usually am that, you know, so I wouldn’t beat yourself up so much for being that way. Because you could just hide in your hole and never live.

Zach  21:36  

And so we get here, how much do we want to talk about we had thing after thing after thing happened once I got here. So I’m flipping my sleep schedule–so I’m comfortable talking about that–from a night shift in a machine shop to day shift, which every time I’ve flipped my sleep schedule, it’s, it’s crazy. It’s very hard to do; it takes months and months and months, and I’m just not sleeping, I get insomnia. So I’m not my best person through all this at all. Like I’m not even cognitively really there. That’s–and I’m just just starting to get this back and feel a little more grounded and sleep a little more during the night. And feel a little more like myself, it’s really just recently have I turned that corner of feeling like there’s hope in that regard. But for a long time I wasn’t even sleeping much at all. So just, I’m not doing well. I’m getting more triggered than I normally would in person. And then we had the… Is this something that we can talk about?

Brittany  22:30  

I think I want to describe my experience as well as you before we get into that, like when he moved in, we’d talked about the excitement of what it was going to be like when he moved in here. And I’m realistic to know… enough to know it’s not always the thing. But it was gonna be you know, we got to sleep together. You know, I get to share a bed with the man I’m in love with. I mean, we didn’t go into how dynamic this connection really is, how I’ve never felt this much fire for another person on all the Mind Body Soul level. 

Zach  23:11  

Shared by me. 

Brittany  23:12  

And yeah. And so we moved in… we couldn’t wait to cook dinner together sometimes and get to wake up together and just all these different things. We were talking every day. And you know, it was beautiful. And by time he got down here, once the job started I didn’t see him. I didn’t know when he was going to be home. We move in together. Once he started the job, and he disappeared. I was home night after night. I didn’t know when he was going to be home. I couldn’t sleep with him because the sleep–now and I understand the sleep schedule thing. But we sleep in separate bedrooms still. Our intimacy life changed. The bedroom thing changed. I didn’t know when–and if I ever asked about when I was going to see him I got a lot of harsh feedback. Then we find out we’re pregnant. And it was not expected. And we had a talk prior; I was raised very conservative, very Christian. And I’m talking about evangelical and even though I’ve walked away from that, those harsh beliefs are still…the condemnation is still inside of me. So we’ve talked about abortion; like if it was early we would go through with it; if it was late term for me, I don’t think I would be able to, but we had that conversation. If we found out we would go through with an abortion. And like

Zach  24:41  

We had had it like much earlier, right? Like we talked about…

Brittany  24:44  

Yeah, we talked about it, but…

Zach  24:45  

 Because I knew she wasn’t on birth control, so i was afraid…

Brittany  24:47  

No, I wasn’t on birth control. So we found out we’re pregnant and I knew that I was gonna have to follow through with what I said. But I never thought I was gonna get pregnant. You know, and I’m not gonna not follow through. And I don’t judge people who get abortions; I think it’s your body and some peop– like, we don’t need a baby right now; we were figuring each other out, like all that’s there, right? But once you’re pregnant, your body does everything to protect this little being; you immediately start bonding to it.  As soon as I found out, I could feel it inside of me. Every day, it got stronger, I could feel it. This little parasite growing inside of me, and I start falling in love with it. And I didn’t want to. And it felt, you know, I know he was worried, “is she gonna change her mind? Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God!”  But for me. There wasn’t that emotional support. Because of his fear of, “Oh my God, I’m, I’m I’m attaching to this already, and I don’t want to.” And I’m about to–I made…I even… I forced myself to do it. I made the appointment. I got all the way up to the abortion clinic. And it was just like, “okay, go in, let’s do it.” You know, for him, because he’s the dude, it’s out of his hands.


Zach  26:05  

I would say that this was heavier for me then…internally. I may not have been expressing that.

Brittany  26:13  

Yeah, I wish you would have because I felt like I did it alone. And I felt that all you were was reactive. And was like, “are you going to do it? Are you going to change your mind?”  And I’m sitting here dying on the inside. I didn’t feel supported.  I didn’t feel there was any empathic connection. And then afterwards, there was this huge relief for you as pieces of baby were coming out of my vagina. I felt abandoned emotionally. And I’m still very mad at you. Because you don’t do that to people you love. That’s just my…that’s where I’m at.

Zach  26:56  

And…I understand that my position in all that makes me somewhat unforgivable.

Brittany  27:08  

And I’m trying to heal that and release it so I don’t resent him, so our relationship can make it. But it’s a very fucking hard thing. And I understand for men, how it’s hard.

Zach  27:20  

This is sort of where we still are as healing from a lot of these traumas. And it’s messy.  We’re deeply in love with each other. I didn’t experience being happy about pieces of the baby coming out your vagina.  That was not my experience. And I understand how it might have felt that way based on what was mostly being communicated. And that is my fault. I’ve never been through that. It was actually very traumatic for me, too. Again, my coping mechanism, oftentimes, as we’ve mentioned a few times, is not healthy, is kind of toxically masculine, and it is to sort of detach, to hover a little bit above my body and not feel it as outwardly, as much as I’m actually feeling it on some level internally. And I wasn’t my best self. So I didn’t handle that very well, I wasn’t there for her in the way that I should have been. In terms of my communication, and empathy, outwardly, at least. And it was actually very heavy for me. And it was very painful. When that actually started happening, and pieces of the baby started coming out of you, that was not pleasant. I just was very afraid to be a father, I didn’t feel remotely ready. And that’s all I was acting from. Fear, mostly outwardly. All I really should have done, and needed to do, would be to have connected with her.

Brittany  29:03  

Yeah, I agree. You’re like, I totally agree. And like, I know, I sound like this, like, mad and vengeful woman right now. But like, this is just the authenticity of what’s still remaining in me, and if I don’t get it out, we’re not gonna be able to heal. But I unders–

Zach  29:20  

To some extent, I’m  shamed and believe I deserve this, by the way.

Brittany  29:24  

I don’t…I… Like I skipped straight to understanding you, and not admitting how much resentment I still have left till recently, and it’s been coming out in anger. And so that’s why I’m admitting this now.

Zach  29:39  

I don’t take it as an attack. But I and I appreciate her but

Brittany  29:43  

I understand, though, why you were the way you were. There’s nothing you did.

Narrator Zach  29:51  

So we saved this for the end. This is the argument This is a painful argument that’s about to happen. This is hard for me to even want to include, if I’m being honest. This is shameful. It is sad. It is deeply sad. It is something that, that, that putting out something that could make us look bad as a couple in terms of–I think I worry that it makes us potentially more vulnerable to put this out there. But I’m hoping–what I’m hoping against… I hope, I hope against hope that what it is, is that maybe more relationships are like this than we realize, and secretly, maybe many of them are hard. And we’re all just–maybe we’re just trying to put our best feet forward. And we all are kind of hiding the seedy underbelly that we all are dealing with in relationships. And we’re all kind of afraid to put that out there. And we only give it to maybe our therapists.


Brittany  31:10  

All right. So today, we decided that it would be a really cool idea to do a podcast today, it was good podcast day. And I asked if… I said it would be really fun to collaborate on some ideas for it. And then Zack wanted to–he just mentioned that it’s easier for him to come up with ideas. It’s hard for him, you know, on his own, and I’m the same way, it’s the hard, the pressure of having to come up with it on the spot. And he said he would give it a go. And I threw out a few ideas. I said maybe this one could be light and airy. Now what I mean by light and airy was: the last one was super vulnerable, and maybe this one could be maybe, just like, we could have some more fun stuff in there. And I did not mean superficial. And so. So I threw out some ideas. And there was a big pause. And this is my perspective, I think that’s super important. And healing to know what I’m perceiving. And I’m throwing out ideas on maybe talking about the domestic life and how we could, how we’re discovering how we could turn things around and make it not so domestic. Just different podcast ideas. And I heard a pause in Zach’s voice. I’m very sensitive to energy. I kind of feel like I know what’s going on. There’s like resistance to it. However it was perceived by him. And instead of [him] getting curious, I hear rejection of the idea. And that he–it was basically a taste thing. And he was needing to do quality control after he informed me that I’d probably be triggered by what he was going to say. So from my perspective, I voiced creative ideas, which is very normal. In a creative project, you voice your ideas, and you toss them back and forth, and you throw them out, you evolve them, you make them better, you get curious about what that person means. But it–he said, This is a type of podcast, I’m going for a certain thing. And that’s not essentially; I’m doing quality control here. So I had to get off the phone instantly. I felt so disrespected. I did not care what intention it was coming from; usually it’s not a bad place with him; it was very disrespectful. And there was no curiosity on the idea. And when I’ve tossed out ideas of his, it was not the same way. And there was no curiosity. I’m not a superficial person. My ideas are not superficial, ever. I’m a weirdo. Everything’s abstract; everything’s layered. So I don’t know why I’m on this podcast right now. If I’m not going to have a say, or my voice does not matter, because it doesn’t fit a box that I was not informed details of what that’s supposed to look like, Idon’t know why I’m here.

Zach  34:27  

So, first of all, this is kind of a nice segue to connect this to the last podcast in which I admitted that I come from a lineage of toxic masculinity like most men probably have in our history. Most men, at least, in the generation of X who had boomer parents and I can squarely say that I did fuck up here. It was an insensitive thing to say. It was a fear based thing to say. And it wasn’t my like highest self, or who I really am. And I apologize, deeply, actually, like for real. And it’s a way I’m trying not to be; it’s something I’m actively trying not to embrace, the part of me, the controlling part of me, the part of me that has this patriarchal–I’m rolling my eyes by the way–controlling fucking stupid, masculine thing that I really want this podcast to sort of expose. And hopefully find some power in real vulnerability, which is that I was afraid that… I kinda do have a fear of being like a man in a way…


Narrator Zach  36:15  

No, no, no, no, no, no, stop. This is fucking bullshit. I am just trying to get out of real sort of accountability here, I believe. And I go into, you know, talking about why I’m insecure as a man in the wedding industry and okay, maybe? I don’t think that’s at the core of why I didn’t accept Brittany’s idea. I think it’s insecurity. I think it’s insecurity. I think this ties into the movie magnolia. I think this is self hatred for being a man. I think this is from not feeling deserving. I think that when you think about what it is to be a man, a warring archetypal man, the man that violently… Even look at what we worship in this culture of the hero, like the man as the hero, this violent man… Men.. Like what… Rockets are shaped like cocks, okay? You know, like, that’s not good. We’re gonna fucking cut that. But, but, but women on the other hand, how if you’re being intellectually honest, what does a woman represent? A man represents war, a man represent–at least historically, what we’ve seen–like, control, conquering, power. This is a… Successful businessman. The patriarchy. What examples do we really have of a man that didn’t in some way embody some of these things that, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you love that? How do you accept that and yourself as a man? Women, on the other hand, represent.. ‘Nurturing.’ I mean, the archetypal, the archetypal woman represents nurturing, maternal, beauty, love, selfless love for the family, for the child. And I’m not saying all women are this, or have to be this or like, some kind of weird… there’s no misogyny here, I’m talking about the archetypal woman, that, that that self sacrifices for the family for, you know, the just that beautiful empathy, that love. And the man, again, is this aggressive, warring… We can extrapolate some positive characteristics, but, but really… There’s a lot of self-hatred in me for being a man. And I think, that insecurity that I’m not worthy of being with a woman. I have… There’s a pedestal factor, I think, at a deep, deep level. It’s almost like I have a belief that no man deserves to be with any woman. And, and honestly, this, this feels, at least historically, what we’ve seen, there’s some justification for this, is there a need evolutionarily for a man to protect? Sure. I’m not saying that the man isn’t needed in the picture. But we don’t have a lot of models as a man of what this divine masculinity is, this interwoven masculinity with femininity in some healthy way. We don’t have… There’s no… There… There are not many examples of this that we see. And there are many examples of beautiful loving, heroic women actually heroic you know, empathy emotional people than and, and so why why would I feel worthy? If I can see that had to be a man. Why would I feel worthy of any woman’s love? Why? Intellectually why would I feel worthy? I think I heard something that was: I’m not worthy to be here. I’m not worthy to be in, you know, and like, let’s just make this a little more, you know, Sunday Afternoon. That maybe I don’t have anything to give to that. So I’m a fucking knuckle dragging primitive heathen.   It’s the fear… I know I can be… I know that. So these are the, there are the, there are the real things that I think the fear itself, the shame of being a man led me to the exact… to the selfsame behavior that I hate. Oh, the irony.


Zach  40:57  

…idiot. Like my way or the highway, I’m like, fucking bastion of good taste here. I don’t, that’s not what I want this to be because I value… I wouldn’t have you on the podcast as my cohost if I didn’t truly value your opinion. I think you do know that. Like, how many times I’ve taken your opinion, even on the wedding films I’ve made since we’ve been together. I’ve taken your creative advice many times, and again, I have insane respect for your taste. I wouldn’t want you to be part of the brand if I didn’t. I do. I do want to honor that. And I want you to be you on this podcast. And have as much feedback on what we talk about. And I think honestly, it’s a great idea to be light and airy and have fun sometimes. And it was just fear. Stupid, masculine fear. Like many of our fathers have been to us. And sometimes I’m that stupid person to myself and other people around me. I don’t want to be

Brittany  42:30  

I appreciate the apology. I think I’m just having a really hard time connecting to it. Because after it happened, like I took space, because I didn’t want to hate myself by reacting and you sent me text after text about like, “Jesus Christ, like really?” I mean, you were just basically like I was an idiot like for being upset over this. So it’s really hard for me while we’re on air, talking to people not thinking you have some kind of ulterior motive to be honest in your apology because you can’t do it to me in person. I told you how I felt. There was no trying to connect to what you did after the conversation to see why I’d be hurt and you never wrote me. All it was was defensiveness about I was being basically oversensitive to something but you’re doing it now. For the podcast. Do you didn’t do it. All.. You were just like making me out like I was ridiculous. But now you understand?

Zach  43:48  

I admit I was in a defensive energy, still. A defensive, fear based energy and not vulnerable. I admit that. I admit that the podcast is a unique space for me to be properly incentivized to be more vulnerable. And to admit that I’m oftentimes an idiot

Brittany  44:30  

I would really like that in our relationship if you… Like because when I hurt you, I really think about it. I don’t need to be in front of a microphone because I don’t like hurting you. I go think about it. How…I know I hurt him and it hurts me to hurt you. And you get silent. And like…I’m like… It’s like…I don’t know, just fucked me up. Because like I’m, I’m sick of being and talked to you like this. And then you’re really subtle and shy and quiet. And I’m the loud one and I’m sick of loud people getting the bad treatment; the only reason we’re loud is because we’re not being heard. Do you think I want to yell and scream and like, I’m shaking right now, my nervous system from the past two weeks is shot. Because I’m just like, traumatized in my own way, but you’re quiet about it. So I’m the bad guy. It’s like, and not feeling understood like, because if you don’t understand the impact your words on me, you’re going to continue and same with me and my behavior. So it’s like, you gotta care even if your intentions are pure, like, so that a change can take place.


Zach  45:52  

I would argue that me admitting being wrong here… Because obviously, you can tell, probably, that I have thought about this…was that…so me being this way now is that I have thought about it, and took it in. And was prepared to be publicly wrong here. Not that there’s actually any wrong or right in relationship. But if there is, in this case, I really was wrong. To say it like that, actually, even to just have that perspective. I have thought about and reflected on that I was wrong. But was immediately afterwards still in that defensive energy, which again, I’m apologizing for that too, I’m sorry that it has to be in the podcast. I was hoping that this podcast would be a way for us to have a place where this kind of conversation can be had in the same way that therapy can be really effective for couples who can fucking afford it. This is… Our moderators are our audience. And that’s who I’m being held accountable to, in addition to you, and hopefully, it trains me to be less this fucking person. And I hate that I’m ashamed to be this toxically masculine person. That’s real. I think I know… I think you know that that’s real. That that’s not who I want to be. Apart…like, outside this podcast, I don’t want to be that way. I want to be able to be this person to you, when the mics are off. I’m hoping this gives us some practice. Having the moderator of our audience present. Generally, it’s a hard pill to swallow. Expect, I wasn’t expecting this to be a completely disarming thing where I just say this, and there’s not a million triggers for you.


Brittany  48:10  

Yeah, I definitely can see the benefit in podcasting. And it being you know, the whole having that invisible wall there that holds you accountable, because we know people are going to be listening. I guess in life, I never really gave a fuck; every personality is different, though. And that’s like, even though I know you guys are all listening, I’ll probably be embarrassed later, sharing our personal story on air, but I can see how it brings entertainment value. But this is real life. We are just like you guys, we hurt each other. And we’re really hurt. And we’ve gone through different cycles of toxicity. We’re pulling out of one now. And I mean, I can only speak for myself, when we go through these toxic cycles, my nervous system’s shot. So it’s just it’s like, I accept your apology. Of course, I love you. I want this to work. I just, you know, I think we both just want our pain to be valued or our voice to be valued.


Narrator Zach  49:24  

So there was a concern here that perhaps I didn’t… Wasn’t able to be as authentically in… I wasn’t able to embody the truth of what I would typically be in an argument with Brittany, I think I kind of I took it here partly because of the podcast because I was self conscious about people listening to it, which I thought was a healthy thing, which I think ended up being healthy because that allowed Brittany to express herself and be heard by me in ways that maybe hadn’t fully happened in the past. And so I think that was healthy and healing. But part of when we listened back to this, it was missing a perspective, it was missing an honesty. And she’s not giving it to me like this all the time. This is not how this happens that I just sit here and take it. Oftentimes I am fighting back. And oftentimes I am angry. And oftentimes, it’s misplaced anger. And I have a history of having anger issues. And I’m not saying that I’m like some abusive, terribly angry person, I think I’m actually doing very good with this. And I think Brittany would agree at this point that I have that in check, but I have a fear of anger. And I think oftentimes, now I go to being checked out and emotionless. And it’s sort of a different kind of anger in a way when you think about it, but I do usually kind of like, fight back in an argument and contribute to it; exacerbate tensions. And I’m not doing that here. And I thought… I just think it’s important for the audience to know, that’s what’s going on to some extent, and I think it’s important that you hear that. I think it’s also important that everyone hears that the reason we’re doing this isn’t to like air our dirty laundry; we want this to be… we believe in us; I believe in the power of Brittany and I. I believe so deeply. I’m in love with Britney, and I wouldn’t want you to think that, you know, all of you in podcast land to think that we’re not hopeful about us and that there aren’t so many beautiful things in our relationship too. So much, you know, warmth, and connection and love. So oftentimes… But it has been hard too. It has been difficult. And there’s been a lot of difficulty. And we don’t want to leave that out either. We want to talk about how hard this journey has been. To start exposing this the truth of what it is to be in relationship in the modern world. And that hopeless romanticism, it’s rough around the edges, it’s it’s, it’s, it’s messy, it’s messy, it’s messy to be in love, and it’s okay that it’s messy to be in love, and it’s beautiful. But it’s messy to be in love. But really, we’re all struggling with this, it’s the hardest thing in the world to, to be in a relationship. I mean, fuck, it’s a hard thing to just be alive in this world, in this physical 3d world, when we are sort of infinite beings, stuffed into these little meat suits, in this 3d realm of separation, where you know, many other realms that we’ve been in, have been infinite, we’ve been infinite beings. This is what I believe. It’s hard to know how to be a human being; it’s hard to know how to be a good human being. It’s hard to be a parent. It’s , it’s hard to be, it’s hard to be alive, it’s hard to be…very hard to be in a relationship. Maybe that’s when I’m positing that maybe more people have these issues. And it’s okay, and we all have shame. And we all want to protect the image because no one else wants to let it out that they’re having a hard time too. And maybe it’s just meant to be hard for all of us. And some of us, it’s hard in quiet ways. And for some of us…and for some of us, it’s hard in loud ways. And some of it’s just hard inside of us inside of our souls and maybe some people have it easy in relationships, perhaps. No, I’m not saying this is true for everyone. But maybe it’s more true than most of us realize that so many of us do struggle with being in relationships, and it’s okay. And it’s okay. And I’m hoping that that’s what this serves as you know, and and we just want you to know how much we actually do love each other. And, and it’s not all this like, you know, Jerry Springer tit for tat horseshit . We want to let you in on that, to see that it’s both things and it’s this beautiful thing and, and also this hard and heavy thing and some relationships are just like that, maybe many. We don’t know. We’re not in all of them. We’re just in ours. But we’re, you know, we’re letting you into the story. We’re letting you into our story because it seems like a weird and unique thing to do. And because we want to do something new and hopefully important and edifying and helpful and inspiring. Even in its darkness. Even in its darkness. So…


Brittany  54:48  

There’s lessons for both of us in this. That was my inner child speaking but in reality, like for me, it’s not here to shame him. But if, if I don’t get out the truth that’s within myself, I will never heal it. For me, I can’t just Band Aid over it not like I’m okay. Because I’ll keep, like, picking him apart and finding other things when in reality I’m mad about the thing, like, two months ago, you know? Because I do love this man. It may seem like, “why the fuck are you guys still together?” Let’s put Twin Flames aside like for me. Like I’m so…I’m so… my mind just goes straight to like logic and practicality and I’m trying to grow from that. But there’s a lot to learn here.  I’ve learned like so much from you in this, from all those pains. I’ve grown so much and I’m not innocent, I did so much shit to him, like, so much shit that I hate myself for. I left him probably over 20 times, abandoned him, packed my stuff, said the worst things you could say to another human being because I was so hurt. I was not an angel. He’s not the only one. So I’m not gonna… but i i…This is the nitty gritty like he was saying, I hurt him. I emasculated the fuck out of him over and over and over to punish him. Because I didn’t feel heard. I didn’t feel like he ever connected to my pain or tried to and I just wanted him to hurt and just wanted to be heard. And now we want to make this work. Tons of couples hurt each other. And they got to figure it out. Most people give up. Sometimes they should, maybe, but we don’t want to. So here we are.

Zach  56:42  

Then we’re back to today. And that terribly insensitive thing that I said to Brittany. Which wasn’t even really true. Is there a part of me that having had the vision of this company feels like I should sort of have some sort of direction? And vision honored about kind of like the tone moving forward. Yeah, I feel that. But I also feel that how I say these things and understanding how to tread those waters. tactfully and lovingly, is something I’m not good at. And I have a lot of fear. That insecure stupid, insecure, small baby Zach Jones bullshit about like, I’m not…my vision’s not being honored, stupid shit, when I know what it is, there’s so much of this that is about that and stupid, stupid, controlling, borderline narcissistic tendencies to think…”well, I’m not just…” when there’s any, like… I just have a paranoid tendency to feel that I’m not honored in my vision, and respected. And I know that’s not true. But it’s just the fear based thing that I bring with me probably from early family trauma. Fatherhood wounds. Father wounds. And, and maybe in different creative relationships, I felt that people who tried to take over my creative vision or didn’t pay attention or listen or honor, whether or not that was true, I can’t really say, I can just say that I have insecurities about that. And I think I heard Brittany differently this morning. Earlier today, and what I heard was that someone not..

Brittany  59:13  

I wanted to collaborate with you.


Zach  59:15  

And I probably just didn’t even express the vision very clearly, too, and like, let you know, communicate what I was thinking about it being, and furthermore, what she wanted to do, in retrospect, her ideas are extremely valuable. I generally come around to these. And, I mean, you’ve seen this, right, like, there’s a push back in the beginning, and then I think about, it’s like a good idea..

Brittany  59:41  

Like, I know that’s part of your defense mechanism. But like, every time I have an idea, you push back at it.

Zach  59:48  

 It’s a trust thing. 

Brittany  59:49  

I know. But it makes it want to empathize back to the other human.

Zach  59:53  

Protecting my creative process.

Brittany  59:54  

It’s like every time you push back at someone’s idea, what it does to their inner child is like nope, nope, not valued, not valued.

Zach  1:00:02  

100%. I understand this.

Brittany  1:00:03  

And you know why you do this? You shouldn’t beat yourself up so bad. It’s your inner child never feeling it had a voice just like my inner child. Here’s twin flames, right here. Feeling like your opinion didn’t matter, your questions were stupid, feeling like your vision wasn’t like a typical man’s vision. So it wasn’t worthwhile.

Zach  1:00:26  

I think I’ve always just really protected my–overly protected–my creative process, because I just knew how vulnerable it was to… There’s something very strange about creativity and having a vision like that, where it can be, it’s like, it’s really easy to lose enthusiasm on your ideas. And so I’ve built up these kind of walls around it like to not be influenced. So I can hold on to whatever I believe is like a unique artistic vision. I think a lot of artists do this and have insecurities about it. Because it’s hard to put yourself out there, it’s really hard to put your brave ideas that can be embarrassing and shameful, sometimes. It’s hard to do that. It’s really hard to get up on a stage and, and get really emotional in front of an audience. I’m, I’m a songwriter, too, guys, and…

Brittany  1:01:20  

He’s really good. 

Zach  1:01:21  

Thanks, Babe. But it’s very, very challenging to do that, to have a brave artistic vision. So I think I’ve built so many walls around that from trust that people are going to, like, make me question it and not value it. Because it comes from like this, like sort of very innocent place, oftentimes, creativity, I think it’s like, our main sort of spiritual sort of language that we have in this world. And so I’ve like protected this thing–overly protected it–to the point of paranoia. And it’s something that I’m trying to, like, open up to more collaboration and not be so insecure about. And it’s hard, and I’m just working on that in real time with you. And the challenge is…

Brittany  1:02:08  

That if you just admit to me, this is hard, I’m gonna, I’m gonna fuck up.

Zach  1:02:13  

I’m gonna fuck up, Babe.

Brittany  1:02:15  

You know what? I respect the fuck out of that. I don’t–you don’t have to put all the pressure on yourself of never saying something like that, or being defensive over wanting to collaborate because you want to be in control. You don’t ever have to worry about needing to do it perfect with me. But if you own your shit, and go, “ah, there I go again.” That to me validates what I just went through, you shouldn’t you don’t need to judge yourself. I don’t need to judge you. It’s that like awareness.

Zach  1:02:49  

I’m so interested in true collaboration. And I’m wanting to get this insecure thing that probably served a purpose at a time when I when I needed to protect my baby burgeoning creative impulses… 

Brittany  1:03:04  

There’s some you still need to protect. 

Zach  1:03:06  

And there was a time, and from certain people maybe, like it’s, and it’s still… So it’s hard to tease that apart. And to know when that’s appropriate to guard it, and when it’s not.

Brittany  1:03:16  

I’m the opposite. I would tell everyone everything and never do any of it for the very reason.

Zach  1:03:21  

That’s the thing. I remember… Paul Thomas Anderson, so the filmmaker that we just explored in the last podcast, he was responsible for Magnolia one of my favorite films ever, but he just has made almost impeccably beautiful films all the way through his career with nary a misstep. It’s just incredible. And one of the things that  he talked about was… a long time ago…. like I juststudied this guy, watched all his interviews, read anything that like how he did what he did, I wanted to know and one of the things that I always took with me and held close to my heart was the importance of not talking about the project with anyone till you’re done writing it, until the gears are moving, because it can just spread that energy out and make it so it doesn’t happen for something…. like you can either get insecure about it if you’d let it out beforehand. It’s just there’s something about keeping the energy in until it’s actually happening that actually has served me very well. So I will say.

Brittany  1:04:24  

But how does that have to do with collaborating when we were like, in this circumstance, we said, “hey, I said, how about we podcast today?” And you were like, “yeah.” And I said, “well, you said I’m gonna–I usually think about ideas on my own.” And I’m like, “well, how about we try to collaborate?” And then then that where does that come in?

Zach  1:04:45  

Well, it’s just that that protection mechanism that I built up has become toxic. Well, that’s what I’m saying. So it’s like, because I built this around that, it’s made it…  I’ve done it so rigidly, and in a paranoid way, almost, that it’s made it so it’s fucking me over in terms of collaboration that I really want. And I’m having to fucking de-program some of this tendency. And I’m like, there’s a mature place where you can have that protected, and also collaborate and allow in other ideas. I just, I’m not there, I’m just working on it; you’re showing me so many things that I’m having to grow from. In this, I’m learning so much from being in relationship with you, because you’re also brilliant; I look at you as an equal. You’re creatively very talented; your ideas are every bit on the level of mine. You may not have, in the same way as me, cultivated it in a rigorous way over years. But that doesn’t mean that the ideas that you have, and the impulse you have every bit on the level of what I have, it’s just that I haven’t gotten to maturity of figuring out this when it’s okay to protect it. And when I need to open up and actually just not be such an insecure little coward about collaboration.


Brittany  1:06:11  

Yeah, I think that Zack has cultivated a lot of things that I have not and I have a lot of things he hasn’t. And so I’m the reason why I’m saying this is his little comment he just said earlier; this is kind of shit, he says, and he doesn’t realize it. He’ll say comments like, I’m further ahead at you in this, but you’re still really awesome. That’s an insecure…

Zach  1:06:31  

I don’t mean further ahead. 

Brittany  1:06:32  

That’s… It’s an insecure based filter in your language to feel like you’re in power.

Zach  1:06:41  

I believe that, that that’s an insecure thing. I agree.

Brittany  1:06:44  

No, if you don’t push back if you don’t think so. But, I mean…

Zach  1:06:48  

No. I do think that like…

Brittany  1:06:54  

Because that’s the shit I get triggered by. It’s like, you know, we’re both good at this. But even though I’ve had a few more years than you, there’s always that throw in there to be on top constantly. And I get so fucking triggered. I’m like, even if it’s true, why do you have to say that? Like, why, dude?

Zach  1:07:10  

I think, again, I’ve had an insecurity because there can… Now, this doesn’t apply to you. But there, I’ve had a history of people who didn’t, like, value, the art and my perspective and like what I have, actually…

Narrator Zach  1:07:33  

So I just want to quickly say, it’s very strange to me that I always seem to have this insecurity about being recognized for my art. There must be some truth to this. I repeat it so often. It must be things that are hanging on from a very young age. And I don’t even mean like my parents, it must be at like school. I wasn’t feeling valued, perhaps by teachers, or peers, maybe young. But you know, in the last many years I actually do, everyone in my life does value me and for my art and my abilities in that arena. So it’s just interesting that I have such insecurities that are hanging on from a young age. I just wanted to point that out. So no one in my life currently thinks I’m talking about them..

Brittany  1:08:25  

Because it’s been a “Bash You Fest” here. And it’s a lot of, like, it’s some harsh shit, like all against Zach. Zach’s creative ability. When you think of like Paul Thomas Anderson and the genius of how everything connects randomly. I mean, not randomly, but everything connects when you don’t know how it’s going to connect in a way that’s just art. It’s not just a movie. When I watched Zach’s wedding films, I’m very particular, I read energy. I don’t just watch something, I feel it, is it flowing? Everything he does, I have a particular taste where it has to feel a certain way. I’ve never seen anything like it.

Zach  1:09:04  

Thank you.

Brittany  1:09:04  


Zach  1:09:06  

Thank you for saying that.

Brittany  1:09:06  

There’s no… His music. When I listen to his music my mind is just releasing those good feeling hormones, because I’ve never heard anything like it. The construct of the song, how you put it together, the timing, nothing in my life. And I’m very particular, I’ve listened to a lot of things surface level and intense stuff that’s, you know, more artistic. It’s beautiful. You’re a genius at art.

Zach  1:09:35  

It’s hard to… I will say, as funny as it is that I’m like starving for recognition in this way. 

Brittany  1:09:41  

It’s hard to accept.

Zach  1:09:42  

When I actually hear it, I’m having to force myself to say thank you. So podcasting land out there. If I sound like a phony motherfucker. It’s because there’s like layers of self-consciousness as I’m trying so hard to accept these compliments. I think there’s some part of me that feels like I don’t deserve them still, the insecurities like I know it’s important for me to like just say thank you. Because it does mean a lot to me that you feel that way. And it feels gross to say that. And it makes me feel like a narcissist. Like, “oh, I know I’m good.” Or something. I don’t know. Like I’m having a hard time with like accepting the compliment even though energetically I know it’s important for me to do it. So sorry for not. If I don’t know how to… There’s like some kind of weird resistance.

Brittany  1:10:29  

It’s for you. I don’t need a thank you. It’s the truth. You don’t have to say anything, but you deserve it. You deserve it. Because you’re different. The world needs that. The world starving for it, you make me feel with your art normal. And I’ve waited to feel. You make me feel at home here with your art.


Zach  1:10:54  

That’s all I want to do is like be a communication to people who also feel lonely and like their perspective’s not connected. It’s for the misfits; it’s for the disenfranchised; it’s for the people like you that need to hear that vision or see that vision. I mean, that’s why I want to do it. So it really is very… I’m very grateful. Hopefully you guys aren’t throwing up your mouths out there.

Brittany  1:11:25  

No, I think it’s needed. I think the listener needs to hear this, because this was a bash– this was some rough shit. And not a lot of podcasts I don’t think do this where we’re fighting on air. I think you guys also need. I bet you’re thinking, like, “what? Why are they together?” There’s so much about this man. I’m not going to go into all the list of things, the reasons besides some twin flame pull that I’m in love with him. And I won’t go into all of it so he doesn’t get all you know. But I love you. I love you, you. And I see you. And that’s why I ask questions. Because I’m trying to pull him out before sometimes he’s ready. And that’s my control issues. Because I do see you. And I am not an angel in this. But um, this is where we’re at today. Yeah, it’s not we’re coming out of another cycle that is repeating from that first one when he got here. So we everything was retriggered. So we got everything came back again.

Zach  1:12:24  

Smaller, maybe?

Brittany  1:12:24  

It’s a little bit smaller. But if we don’t take a little bit of space.

Zach  1:12:24  

It feels the same, though, really…

Brittany  1:12:25  

It does feel the same.

Zach  1:12:26  

It’s smaller and less extreme maybe in a way.

Brittany  1:12:35  

Physically, it feels bigger for me, because I didn’t recover quite fully from the last one. So my nerve… I’m constantly shaking… my nervous system’s shot. 

Zach  1:12:44  

There’s been less breaking up this time.

Brittany  1:12:46  

I didn’t. I didn’t leave the house. 

Zach  1:12:48  

Yeah. That’s what I mean like, to me, like, when I look at what actually happened in the real world, this one was less, based on..

Brittany  1:12:57  

I actually do have bags in the back of my trunk…

Zach  1:13:01  

Perpetually? Or just, like, now?

Brittany  1:13:03  

After that comment earlier, I almost had a panic attack, because I’m just so shot from all this. So I got everything that meant the most to me. I wasn’t going to break up. But I was going back home to the other house. Because I didn’t feel safe here with our dynamic the way it was, like, I don’t want us to like drive each other crazy.

Zach  1:13:25  

I thought your podcast earlier was directed towards me… Or your live stream on Instagram was directed towards me.

Brittany  1:13:33  

It was. I was guided to do this podcast today with you. I was driv–I was, actually, when you messaged me or messaging me, I was halfway to the other house. And you started talking about the podcast and like this is something I would want to podcast about… this conversation because this is real. Let’s exploit our relationship.

Zach  1:13:54  

I did not say that.

Brittany  1:13:55  

No. But no, he didn’t say that. But that’s what it felt like. And I was like…

Zach  1:13:58  

This is a dynamic that comes up sometimes, Ladies and Germs, that I am trying to exploit our relationship with this podcast. That I’m really only trying to get ahead artistically and when we have gold… But that is… It’s a fear.

Brittany  1:14:13  

It is a fear because we only connect like we are right now where I actually feel my feelings are being validated. This is the very few times. Like this is one of the few times I felt it.

Zach  1:14:25  

It’s because this resembles therapy. We have a dynamic here where we’re being held accountable.

Brittany  1:14:30  

Yeah, I think I get it.

Zach  1:14:32  

You know, like it’s, like, really our audience, our imagined audience is the moderator.

Brittany  1:14:38  

I just hope we can get to a point for… because we live together… that we can do this in person.

Zach  1:14:47  

Isn’t the idea, perhaps, of therapy, kind of like training wheels; a way to sort of like have a safe place for both people to express…

Brittany  1:14:55  

Yeah, totally. 

Zach  1:14:56  

How they really feel.

Brittany  1:14:57  

It’s brilliant. It was a great idea, Zach.

Zach  1:15:00  

I wasn’t trying to get that recognition, by the way, I was just saying,


Brittany  1:15:02  

No, I’m giving it to you because I want to.

Zach  1:15:04  

I feel guided to do this for that reason. 

Brittany  1:15:06  

No, I’m gonna give you recognition whether you like it or not. I do it because I want to.

Zach  1:15:11  

Jesus, I need it and I hate it.

Take it. Take it all. No, what I was saying was is I was guided. When you mentioned the podcast, it was a little bit of vengeance, like kind of like, “oh, you want a podcast? Oh.”  I wasn’t planning on talking now. I had nothing to say. And I just felt guided, like, go do the podcast, don’t say shit to him. And I’m gonna go blow his asshole open in front of everyone. And because I was so hurt, and then I calmed down. And I was just like, I don’t want to fucking hurt him. I love him. But I’m angry. And so this is where we’re at.

I think we’re sort of… we’ve come to the end here. 

Brittany  1:16:01  

You’re welcome.

Zach  1:16:02  

I feel… Yeah. Yeah, they got way more than they bargained for.

Brittany  1:16:08  

Jerry! Jerry! We want trash people, y’all.

Zach  1:16:13  

And we… I’m a little bit exhausted in a good way there. But I also feel more connected to Brittany at this point, after doing that, like after the last one. So this…it does feel properly therapeutic and in a way I feel more connected to you. And so after filling your ear holes with some toxic twin flame arguments for an hour and 20 minutes, we’re wrapping this up. We will have some light and airy podcasts that are fun, I promise you

not superficial. Not superficial 

Not Sunday afternoon, like every fucking, you know, wedding film that you’re ever seen…

Brittany  1:16:54  

We don’t know how to do that. we don’t even know how to be superficial.

Zach  1:16:57  

So, but I think this is beautiful. I think this is real. I think this is what people need to hear in an industry where…

Brittany  1:17:09  

 You’re welcome. 

Zach  1:17:10  

…maybe some of the reality of modern love–Modern Romance–isn’t being talked about; we’re talking about all of it, because wethink it’s important for everyone else to be talking about this too. And I think it’s the way for us to find healing, generational healing, healing traumas, healing our wounds from our fathers and mothers that are getting passed down. I think this is the only way is talking about it. And hopefully, this makes you guys feel a little more safe to explore some of these ideas yourself and not just like, you know, like, sweep it under the rug and act like everything is okay to everyone and then just be ashamed of that there is darkness in the world too even when two people are deeply in love. These things occur simultaneously. And it’s beautiful, and it’s ugly. And it’s real.

Brittany  1:18:14  

Makes for good sex.

Zach  1:18:17  

That it does and so with that being said, follow us on all the places; follow us on… where we at, Babe?

Brittany  1:18:32  

EpicLoveWeddingFilms.com Check us out on Instagram: Epic Love Wedding Films and Epic Love Wedding Hair and Makeup.

Zach  1:18:41  

That is so professional. I love it when you talk like that. Get even more professional.

I wish I could roll…[indiscernable sound]

 I want to fuck all that professionalism, all that radio voice.

Brittany  1:18:46  

Give it to me.

Zach  1:18:57  

We’ve made everyone really awkward as we’ve gotten ‘bow chicka wow’ at the end here. But that’s about it, you guys. Love you, Babe. 

Brittany  1:19:12  

I love you. 

Zach  1:19:13  

And we love all of you in a different way and a more agape love kind of way that we may explore. 

Brittany  1:19:19  

You guys are awesome.

Zach  1:19:21  

And–all three of you. And join us, y’know, for our next one, hopefully soon. Peace out.

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